Exclusive. Interview with Cécile Kyenge: ‘The right to citizenship is a major issue for Italian society’
Rome (Italy) – Racial insults, death threats, the throwing of bananas, call for rape. This is what’s been happening in Italy since Cécile Kyenge was appointed minister for Integration. ‘Frankly, I did not expect this level of verbal abuse’, said the first woman with African origins (Congolese, to be precise) to enter an Italian government. In this exclusive interview with Afronline.org and Echos des Grands Lacs, Kyenge said she would respond ‘to the political class’ failure to act. They do not understand that it is not simply about me. These attacks take place in Italian society as a whole and the institutions’. Moreover, ‘migrants are not responsible for the Italian economic crisis’.
Kyenge knows she is not alone in this fight. In a recent survey, she became the most popular politician in Italy. But for how long? In addition to the uncertainty over the survival of Enrico Letta’s government, the most astute of the peninsula’s political scientists argue that her political fate will be determined (in part) with her bill on citizenship. ‘A major issue for Italian society’, its purpose is to meet the aspirations of the ‘children who were born in or arrived in Italy at a young age’.
Minister, what memories do you have of the day when you were appointed Minister for Integration?
I only have rather vague memories. I was in a shop close to the train station in Bologna with a friend of mine and we were discussing a project on free movement (of migrants, Ed.). I received a phone call from Prime Minister Enrico Letta asking me to be part of the new government as Minister for Integration. I didn’t understand at first: he had to ask me twice to persuade me to accept. It took me a few moments. I was a little embarrassed because I didn’t have anything to wear for the inauguration ceremony scheduled for the following day. I was utterly bewildered!
Since you were appointed minister for Integration, you have been the target of verbal attacks and racially motivated threats from some fellow Italians and some Italian politicians. How do you deal with this rejection? Did you expect this level of verbal abuse?
As with any cultural change, I knew that my appointment would create problems, it is normal. But frankly, I did not expect this level of verbal abuse. Having suffered this violence recently, it has made me realise that there is still much work to do in Italy, where issues around racism have long been ignored. Unfortunately racist acts have increased since my appointment, especially by some people within institutions and political leaders. It is neither normal nor acceptable; we need to find a solution. Personally, I have always responded to the violence with non-violence, but I think the violence can also be stopped by raising awareness among political leaders and making them accountable so they can stop these attacks within their party.
After having adopted an almost stoic attitude for a long time, you recently decided to strike back against your opponents. What made you decide to do this?
I decided to respond to political class’ failure to act. They do not understand that it is not simply about individuals. These attacks take place in Italian society as a whole and the institutions. I received lots of support, but that is not enough. It is time to find tools that can help the cultural change that is taking place in this country.
Do you feel that racism is on the rise in Italy?
No, unfortunately the economic crisis does not make things any easier. It increases poverty and when people see poverty they look for scapegoats to explain it. We need to explain to the Italian population that migrants are not responsible for the economic crisis. It is a crisis that affects everyone, almost no one is spared. That said, I think we need to be able to make distinctions. In Italy, immigration is a more recent phenomenon compared to other European countries. Today, young people see foreigners in a completely different way to their parents. Every day in schools, children of Italian origin interact with children of immigrants, whether they were born in Italy or not. These young people are much more open than their parents are, but again this is not enough. They need to be given the tools to allow them to maintain this openness.
Given the verbal abuse you have suffered and your nomination as Minister for Integration, do you think that this difference reflects a schizophrenic approach to migration and integration?
This problem exists not only in Italy but also in Europe and even outside of Europe, in many other countries. Our societies are still struggling to accept migration. I would even say that the notion of diversity itself is not accepted. We fail to understand that diversity is a resource, with more advantages than disadvantages. This makes it very difficult to adopt a real integration policy. In addition to Italian institutions, the European and even the international community need to think about this. The solutions that I try to introduce to Italy through jus soli should guide us towards preventing adverse effects over the long term.
What strategy do you plan to adopt within the Ministry for Integration?
I’m in charge of not only integration, but also the fight against racism. We are adopting a plan for the next three years which should enable us to more effectively combat racial discrimination against foreigners, foreign-born Italians and the Roma community. The plan has two approaches: the implementation of existing anti-racism laws and campaigns against racism, in addition to programs to promote integration in national education, in health care and in housing, a sector in which much work still needs to be done to prevent the creation of urban ghettos. That said, there are other ways to combat racism. The ability to travel and come face-to-face with other cultures allows us to better understand migration and to open up to others.
Are there any models of integration in Europe that inspire you?
No, there are models that I have studied carefully that I would like to avoid in Italy. The urban ghettos in the French suburbs are an example to avoid as all it has done is fuel social segregation.
What is involved in the bill that you support for jus soli?
The institutions and the Italian political class are very focused on the economic crisis, but I am convinced that the battle over the rights of citizenship is a major challenge for Italian society that cannot be ignored. We must respond to the aspirations of children who were born in or arrived in Italy at a young age, regardless of the nationality of their parents. Today there are nearly one million minors trying to understand whether they belong to the Italian community or whether they belong to the country of origin of their parents. Some of them know little or nothing of their culture of origin. This is why it is very important that schools introduce other cultures to students. As I am also in charge of youth policies, I think that the process of integration into society involves strengthening the identity of those who belong to this society.
Your ministry is working closely with the Ministry of the Interior, which manages migration policies and flows, and yet, there is a whole debate about which immigration model to adopt, which affects the process of integrating migrants, in the short, medium and long term. What type of migration policy Italy should adopt today?
This is a very sensitive issue. Even today, Italy and Europe connect immigration with security issues, viewing it as a social phenomenon to be strictly controlled. After so many years, I’m trying to introduce another idea, which is to promote a reception policy that goes beyond a simple emergency management, which remains difficult.
European migration policies have a number of problems, especially with the heavy impact of migration on countries in southern Europe such as Spain, Italy and Greece. This ultimately makes the integration process even more complicated. What do you hope Brussels will do?
Coordination of reception policies is needed and it must be done across the European Community. In other words, efforts to accommodate migrants should be shared because when a migrant enters Italy, he also enters the Schengen area. Unfortunately, the move from the Dublin II to the Dublin III regulations does not fundamentally change the policy of European asylum law because asylum seekers must still submit an application in the first European country they enter. We need to resume discussions to make it clear that this problem cannot be placed on a single country; all countries (in the Schengen area, Ed.) need to be involved. I want to emphasise that Italy migration policies do not fall within the jurisdiction of my ministry; they are the responsibility of the ministries of the Interior and Foreign Affairs.
Minister, you are from the Republic of the Congo. What should the Congolese people think about your presence in the Italian government?
It is not easy for me to answer questions about my country of origin because right now I represent the Italian Republic. That said, the presence of a person of African descent in an Italian government which recognises my career, my integration and my place in this society, is a highly symbolic choice. This appointment can help every person who is currently in another country to understand that with a lot of confidence and perseverance, the weakest of voices can be heard.
And regarding the DRC?
I think my nomination is a source of pride for the Congolese people.
You also worked hard for the rights of Congolese women. What is your reaction to the many international reports of mass rape in the East of the country?
It is a crime against humanity, which unfortunately does not only affect Congolese women, although it is clear that it is widespread in the East DRC. This is one of the issues that made me get involved in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to try to enforce international conventions on women’s rights. This is what Italy did with the Istanbul Convention, the implementation of which is needed if we want to help African and Congolese women.
Minister, for a decade, Africa has been experiencing a great economic boom. Do you think that for a crisis such as the one Italy is experiencing, the African diaspora from your country could be an important lever to promote Italian investment in Africa and contribute – as a minimum – to the economic revitalisation of this country?
Yes, I believe that this is an opportunity. By appointing a minister of foreign origin for the first time, the current Italian government has in some way recognised the potential role of the diaspora in this country. A new stage has been reached and a sign that cultural change is happening in Italy.
Click here for the French version
By Joshua Massarenti (Afronline), in collaboration with Alice Hakizimana (Echos des Grands Lacs)
Credit picture: Flickr.com/European University Institute